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	<title>Comments on: Discuss</title>
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	<description>I go many places...</description>
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		<title>By: Malcolm</title>
		<link>http://malcolmpollack.com/2008/03/15/discuss/comment-page-1/#comment-80229</link>
		<dc:creator>Malcolm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 14:38:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Exactly, Bob. Self-inflicted, but egged on and abetted by those all around with a vested interest in strife, not peace.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Exactly, Bob. Self-inflicted, but egged on and abetted by those all around with a vested interest in strife, not peace.</p>
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		<title>By: bob koepp</title>
		<link>http://malcolmpollack.com/2008/03/15/discuss/comment-page-1/#comment-80227</link>
		<dc:creator>bob koepp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 14:34:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The Palestinians&#039; &quot;protracted martyrdom&quot; to which Malcolm refers isn&#039;t effective in arousing the sympathy of an observing world -- because it&#039;s self-inflicted. Actively seeking martyrdom is, shall we say, unbecoming. Doing it to yourself is just plain stupid. In contrast, standing up with whatever dignity one can muster, and daring the Israelis to act oppressively will generate respect, sympathy and good will. And who knows... the Israelis might actually make a martyr of you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Palestinians&#8217; &#8220;protracted martyrdom&#8221; to which Malcolm refers isn&#8217;t effective in arousing the sympathy of an observing world &#8212; because it&#8217;s self-inflicted. Actively seeking martyrdom is, shall we say, unbecoming. Doing it to yourself is just plain stupid. In contrast, standing up with whatever dignity one can muster, and daring the Israelis to act oppressively will generate respect, sympathy and good will. And who knows&#8230; the Israelis might actually make a martyr of you!</p>
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		<title>By: Malcolm</title>
		<link>http://malcolmpollack.com/2008/03/15/discuss/comment-page-1/#comment-80185</link>
		<dc:creator>Malcolm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 03:30:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Peter, this remark of yours sums things up with admirable pith:
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;em&gt;I think that any discussion of the Arab-Israeli conflict has to start with the recognition that if the Arabs laid down their arms, there would be peace in the region, while if the Israelis laid down their arms, they would all be dead.&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Clearly what the Palestinians have been doing is not working, and Israel will &lt;em&gt;never&lt;/em&gt; lay down its arms. The interests of the Palestinians have been continuously betrayed both from without and within: the other Islamic nations in the region have obvious use for the continued suffering of Palestine, and, rather than offering its people succor or wise counsel, they prefer to fan the flames of resentment, for reasons that are obvious enough.

The Palestinians must realize that, holding no cards other than the spectacular abjectness of their misery and their inequality against the superior might of Israel  --  all of which are plainly evident to a watching world  --  their only choices are either to cool their blood or to continue to see it run in their streets. Their protracted &quot;martyrdom&quot; serves only the ends of the regional players who use them as their pawns. Peace will be met with peace.

But it is critical that the Israelis must be made aware that the good will of the West, and of America in particular, is imperiled by right-wing settlement-building, a deliberately insulting gesture of ostentatious overlordship, and one that plays perfectly into the hands of Islamic extremists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter, this remark of yours sums things up with admirable pith:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>I think that any discussion of the Arab-Israeli conflict has to start with the recognition that if the Arabs laid down their arms, there would be peace in the region, while if the Israelis laid down their arms, they would all be dead.</em></p></blockquote>
<p>Clearly what the Palestinians have been doing is not working, and Israel will <em>never</em> lay down its arms. The interests of the Palestinians have been continuously betrayed both from without and within: the other Islamic nations in the region have obvious use for the continued suffering of Palestine, and, rather than offering its people succor or wise counsel, they prefer to fan the flames of resentment, for reasons that are obvious enough.</p>
<p>The Palestinians must realize that, holding no cards other than the spectacular abjectness of their misery and their inequality against the superior might of Israel  &#8212;  all of which are plainly evident to a watching world  &#8212;  their only choices are either to cool their blood or to continue to see it run in their streets. Their protracted &#8220;martyrdom&#8221; serves only the ends of the regional players who use them as their pawns. Peace will be met with peace.</p>
<p>But it is critical that the Israelis must be made aware that the good will of the West, and of America in particular, is imperiled by right-wing settlement-building, a deliberately insulting gesture of ostentatious overlordship, and one that plays perfectly into the hands of Islamic extremists.</p>
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		<title>By: the one eyed man</title>
		<link>http://malcolmpollack.com/2008/03/15/discuss/comment-page-1/#comment-80156</link>
		<dc:creator>the one eyed man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Mar 2008 20:46:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Well, it&#039;s hard to argue against non-violent resistance -- my only question is how effective it would be --</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, it&#8217;s hard to argue against non-violent resistance &#8212; my only question is how effective it would be &#8211;</p>
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		<title>By: bob koepp</title>
		<link>http://malcolmpollack.com/2008/03/15/discuss/comment-page-1/#comment-80155</link>
		<dc:creator>bob koepp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Mar 2008 20:25:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Pete - We agree that Israel has legitimate security concerns. And I think many of the security measures employed by Israel are appropriate. This applies particularly to military actions which are usually clearly provoked. However, the impact of the occupation on the lives of ordinary Palestinians cannot fail to be oppressive. It is to these people that I recommend consideration of non-violent non-cooperation. To those who necessitate the occupation, I recommend laying down arms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pete &#8211; We agree that Israel has legitimate security concerns. And I think many of the security measures employed by Israel are appropriate. This applies particularly to military actions which are usually clearly provoked. However, the impact of the occupation on the lives of ordinary Palestinians cannot fail to be oppressive. It is to these people that I recommend consideration of non-violent non-cooperation. To those who necessitate the occupation, I recommend laying down arms.</p>
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		<title>By: the one eyed man</title>
		<link>http://malcolmpollack.com/2008/03/15/discuss/comment-page-1/#comment-80078</link>
		<dc:creator>the one eyed man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Mar 2008 22:26:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I&#039;m not so sure about the Gandhi thing.  I am currently reading Indian Summer, an excellent book about the transition from British colonial rule to India and Pakistan.  The author makes the case that the uncompromising Gandhi delayed emancipation from British rule by at least ten years, while Nehru and others could have accomplished it in the 1930&#039;s had Gandhi not been a player.  

I think that any discussion of the Arab-Israeli conflict has to start with the recognition that if the Arabs laid down their arms, there would be peace in the region, while if the Israelis laid down their arms, they would all be dead.  Israel has very legitimate security concerns, which are not going to vanish regardless of what the Palestinians do.  The only means to some kind of reasonable outcome is a lengthy period of time with diminishing violence, where the Israelis are able to have some confidence in their security.

The Palestinians have a weak hand, both because they have no meaningful leverage and because they lack a strong leadership.  In the best of all possible worlds, Hamas would disappear and there would be a gradual rapprochement between Israel and a moderate Palestinian leadership, culminating in an independent Palestinian state.  The would be a slow, two-steps-forward-and-one-step-back process, but I don&#039;t see any other alternative to a continuation of the status quo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not so sure about the Gandhi thing.  I am currently reading Indian Summer, an excellent book about the transition from British colonial rule to India and Pakistan.  The author makes the case that the uncompromising Gandhi delayed emancipation from British rule by at least ten years, while Nehru and others could have accomplished it in the 1930&#8217;s had Gandhi not been a player.  </p>
<p>I think that any discussion of the Arab-Israeli conflict has to start with the recognition that if the Arabs laid down their arms, there would be peace in the region, while if the Israelis laid down their arms, they would all be dead.  Israel has very legitimate security concerns, which are not going to vanish regardless of what the Palestinians do.  The only means to some kind of reasonable outcome is a lengthy period of time with diminishing violence, where the Israelis are able to have some confidence in their security.</p>
<p>The Palestinians have a weak hand, both because they have no meaningful leverage and because they lack a strong leadership.  In the best of all possible worlds, Hamas would disappear and there would be a gradual rapprochement between Israel and a moderate Palestinian leadership, culminating in an independent Palestinian state.  The would be a slow, two-steps-forward-and-one-step-back process, but I don&#8217;t see any other alternative to a continuation of the status quo.</p>
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		<title>By: bob koepp</title>
		<link>http://malcolmpollack.com/2008/03/15/discuss/comment-page-1/#comment-80064</link>
		<dc:creator>bob koepp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Mar 2008 19:22:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Personally, I think this is a no brainer. Gandhi showed the way. It&#039;s true that Gandhi&#039;s way might not have worked with a Hitler, or with any of a number of megalomaniacal murderers scattered across the pages of history. But if ever there was a situation &quot;made for&quot; shaming one&#039;s oppressors into submission, Palestine is it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Personally, I think this is a no brainer. Gandhi showed the way. It&#8217;s true that Gandhi&#8217;s way might not have worked with a Hitler, or with any of a number of megalomaniacal murderers scattered across the pages of history. But if ever there was a situation &#8220;made for&#8221; shaming one&#8217;s oppressors into submission, Palestine is it.</p>
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