My fondest wish for this website is that it be a salon, not a soapbox! (And certainly not a stag party.)

As for qualia (that’s plural; the singular is “quale”, which is pronounced “kwa-lay”): the term refers to our subjective experiencing of the things we perceive: the “redness” of red, the “painfulness” of pain, and so forth. Qualia are one of the central and most contentious topics in the philosophy of mind.

If you’d like to get quickly up to speed on the topic, you might like to look at this informative article at the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, and then this famous and provocative paper by Daniel Dennett.

…brain activity reflecting decision prior to external registration of conscious registration of that decision (per the physorg article of a week ago) is neither here nor there as regards free will.

That’s an interesting remark, and if you are saying that consciousness is not a key aspect of free will, then you cede a lot of ground already that many would want to defend, I think. I’m inclined to agree with you; I think our freedom is proportional to our power as deliberators, and consciousness is a separate issue altogether. But I suspect that for many people an unconscious choice is hard to see as “free” in the way that people like to think of free will.

I’m not really talking about “software” here in any specific sense, though I suppose I don’t see anything about the brain — at least in terms of its “inputs and outputs” — that couldn’t in principle be modeled by a sufficiently enormous algorithmic computer. But I don’t think that is necessarily enough for consciousness, though that is, as already established, not the issue here. I suspect that consciousness depends on some physical properties of the biological brain, and not just on having the right simulation.

Implicit in your remark is the assumption that we are able to tell, from within, whether or not our consciousness is the result of the brain’s physical activity — as if we were to say “well, I know that if my mind were just my brain at work it would feel like X, and instead it feels like Y, so I know it isn’t so.”

But I doubt we are in a position to make that call purely on the basis of how it all feels. Our consciousness is at its most unreliable, in many ways, when it tries to become aware of its own foundation and limits.

At any rate, none of this interferes in the slightest with our ability to introspect, to work toward modifying our behavior and even the habits and capabilities of consciousness itself! (Though I do think that the difficulty of this work is another glimpse of how much is hidden from view, and how deeply mechanical we are.) My point here is that all is still possible even with minds that arise from our brains — that are our brains at work — and brains that are natural objects like everything else.

For me it often becomes a question of personal morality. We do seem to choose to do what we do, or not. We deliberate ( does that mean negate our liberty ?)… Until our options get narrowed down. or perhaps until we marginalize the issues that deter us from what we will…

Such a procedure uses the brain of course, but there is a sense - for me at least, that there is also a part of my consciousness that is very much in this moment and taking the reins of my own actions as I weigh the choices available…I am not as sure as you are Mac that that consciousness relies on my brain, but rather observes and uses my thinking as just another part of this human life I live as a spiritual being.

The YiJing admonishes me to nurture the “higher” aspects of my being rather than the “lower” aspects, in other words, work to build compassion and honor and courage etc etc…- the better aspects of my nature rather than delight in all the various flavors and sensual delights etc…Stoic rather than hedonistic… and as you know that has indeed been a furious battle ground in itself!! It is assumed that there is an “I” that can choose to alter my behaviors as I see fit.

so-I know I have made choices that seem to have mellowed me over the years. These are perhaps a reaction to aging itself. I think that they surely are to some degree, but I also believe that I have strengthened my inner sense of being to be guided by my higher self, and not my lower more animalistic nature…

Do I spend money I can ill afford - to do something I presume will amuse me greatly? Not so much these days…I need a new brain!!!-

Pat

…you’ve made me examine everything I think that I decided to do this afternoon! To be truthful my mind is swimming with all kinds of ideas.
Well, that’s just what I was hoping for, so you’ve made my day!

Can “I” take control of those physical processes in the brain?
Well, to answer that, we need to be clear about what “I” means. Both in the context being discussed here, and also that discussed in ISM, this is an important question.

None of this is inconsistent with the erasing and revising you did; I also did a lot of that too as I wrote this post, and even this reply!

The point I wish to develop is precisely that the truth or falsity of determinism has no perceptible effect on our lives whatsoever, and is not at all the bogeyman that it is made out to be.

One other point: rather than saying “I don’t believe in free will”, I think it will be productive first to look at what we mean by the concept itself: the term “free will” hides a lot of unexamined assumptions that it will be useful to get out in the open. My opinion is that even as fully embedded parts of a world that operates under “deterministic” natural laws, we are every bit as free as we could ever want or hope to be.

No, it’s the same issue I’m talking about. This is a huge topic, and there are so many angles to examine that I’m going to take my time.

But fear not, we are going to continue to be accountable for our actions, I think.

That’s it for now, maybe more later.