Comments on: Causes and Cans

By: Malcolm

Malcolm — Mon, 02 Jun 2008 18:32:49 +0000

Thanks, JK – we’ll take a look.

By: JK

JK — Mon, 02 Jun 2008 17:53:18 +0000

Malcolm,

Just ran across something that may, or may not be of some significance to this ongoing discussion. Not being the adept critical thinker I consider you to be. That’s no joke by the way, I’d enjoy reading your take on this:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20080602/sc_livescience/keytoallopticalillusionsdiscovered

By: the one eyed man

the one eyed man — Sat, 31 May 2008 15:43:33 +0000

Let’s hope so. After all, they took away all of his toys.

I would like to think that things worked out for him, and he settled down with a nice girl like Lil McGill (although everyone knew her as Nancy).

By: Malcolm

Malcolm — Fri, 30 May 2008 23:46:30 +0000

As long as he’s still thrashing the air with his hands…

By: the one eyed man

the one eyed man — Fri, 30 May 2008 22:30:34 +0000

Remember when the Jefferson Airplane sang that “Lather was thirty years old today?”

Well, today he’s seventy.

By: JK

JK — Fri, 30 May 2008 22:07:44 +0000

Malcolm, I'm listening now to old Jefferson Airplane now so conditions never remain the same and thus neither anticipating nor avoiding are possible in the world as I read your positing. The canteen is superfluous. Were I to be listening to Sly and the Family Stone I might be tempted to say I occupy the same coordinates, and in occupying those same coordinates could conclude that everything being equal, the putts' outcome would of necessity, remain the same as before. However, would it be determined that I was listening to say, Beatles music, the only conclusion I might reach is that the Earth has rotated.

By: Malcolm

Malcolm — Fri, 30 May 2008 17:07:40 +0000

Jeanie,

Fred might have prevented his death by checking his canteen, but he had filled it the night before, and had no reason to assume it wouldn’t be full when he left. But anticipating danger and avoiding it is indeed one of things free agents can do, and it is important to note that this is true whether dterminism is true or not.

As for that putt, you are exactly right. When we say “could have done otherwise”, what do we mean, exactly? That given exactly the same conditions again, there might be a different outcome? But as you say, the conditions are never exactly the same.

By: Jeanie Oliver

Jeanie Oliver — Fri, 30 May 2008 17:00:01 +0000

Malcolm,
didn’t Fred cause his own death by not checking the canteen before he took the first step.
On the other issue: how do we know we can make that putt? I’m assuming that the author has at some time before hit “that shot” and thus he thinks it will be the same this time. But it’s not. During the previous shot, an entirely different set of natural factors were at work. He can never get those exact alignments exactly again. I think our brain fools us into thinking “we have done this before” or we wouldn’t be able to wake in the morning for a fear that we are having to relearn every action. The reality is we have never done anything before in an exact way or you would have to be reliving it.
I think that perhaps your reading recs are beginning to REALLY make me think….I still don’t know if I’m thinking coherently yet.
Jeanie
Jeanie

By: Malcolm

Malcolm — Fri, 30 May 2008 15:54:43 +0000

Well, Pete, thanks for clearing that up. Now we can move on to simpler questions, like why we experience the passage of time, or why the universe exists.

By: the one eyed man

the one eyed man — Fri, 30 May 2008 15:49:36 +0000

Leaving aside the question of how many people in the French Foreign Legion are named Tom, Dick, and Harry: they all caused his death because they all had murderous intent and acted upon it. Which of the three acts was most proximate to poor Fred’s death is irrelevant.

The answer to the second example is equally simple. Instead of putting, he should have picked up the ball and called it a gimme. Having failed to do so and then having missed the putt, he was entirely justified in kicking himself.